Jon Sabes: Ok, welcome to another installation of the Innovating Life podcast with Jon Sabes. Here with me today is Carl Landry. Carl is a NBA basketball player, played a decade in the NBA for a variety of teams, and a fellow Midwesterner. We’re glad to have him here, so let’s go, Carl.
Carl: Thank you. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
Jon: Yeah. So you’re a Midwest guy. Grew up in Milwaukee?
Carl: Right down the road, we can say, like five hours. Same weather climate. Great city, though, especially in the summertime.
Jon: I love Milwaukee as well. I think it’s a great city. I’m a big Milwaukee fan.
Carl: Yeah, it’s a lot going on, like I said, especially in the summertime. The city is located right on Lake Michigan. I’m a guy that loves to fish. I love water, so it’s the perfect city for me.
Jon: Awesome, awesome. And now I’m not a basketball guy, ok, so I’m not a sports guy per say. One of my best buddies, he always said, why are you going to be watching sports, other guys playing sports, go do a sport yourself. And that’s just kind of my philosophy. Rather than watch the other guys play sports, I go do a sport myself. But I have always been amazed by the professional athletes, man, and just the incredible athleticism, which you guys do.
Carl: What’s your sport?
Jon: What’s my sport? I’m kind of a late bloomer. What I like to do is triathlons. I’ve been doing triathlons.
Carl: That’s more than a sport.
Jon: I’ve done five Ironman, completed five Ironman competitions. Madison, Wisconsin. I like to do the one out in Madison. That’s my thing.
Carl: And how long is that?
Jon: Well, that’s a 2.4 mile swim you start with. Then you got to ride, what is it, 124 miles.
Carl: Are you serious?
Jon: And then you got to run a marathon, 26.2 miles.
Carl: And how long does that take? Two weeks?
Jon: No, no, you got to get that done, you gotta be done by midnight. It’s kind of fun. You start off at about sevenish in the morning, seven in the morning. You have to finish by midnight. They close the course at midnight. So for me, I think my best time was 11 hours and 20 odd minutes. The guy who’ll win that event will finish it in about six and a half hours. And the last person to finish the event comes across the finish line at midnight. We call them the midnight riders. What happens is a bunch of us who have already completed the race, and we’re all fans, right, we’ll all gather around at the finish line, watching these people come down the finish at midnight, right, at 11:59 or 58. And if they don’t get through the finish line, race is over.
Jon: And you know, there’s some people there that you’re going like, really, you can do that. I mean, you know, there’s some shapes and sizes of bodies where you’ll be like, wow, no shit, you just completed an Ironman.
Carl: So the bike part is 100 miles.
Jon: 100 plus, yeah.
Carl: So you arrive from Madison, Wisconsin to Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
Jon: Well, yeah, you could in theory, yeah.
Carl: 100 miles. That’s unbelievable, man.
Jon: And then you go run. So that’s what I’ve been doing later in life. I kind of got into that when I had my babies. I started running. I started doing stuff so I could get some exercise, and then it led to a little bit of biking. Then I learned to swim. I’d learned really how to swim. In fact, the first triathlon that I did–this isn’t supposed to be about me, but we’ll be talking about me, we’re fine– I did the sidestroke, because I didn’t even know how to do the crawl. So I did a sidestroke for the first one. And I did a half Iron the first one I ever did, but I did sidestroke the whole way. (laughs) What is that guy doing. So anyways, you know, we just go get it done, just go get it done.
Carl: Awesome, man. Respect. That’s not easy, so.
Jon: Thank you. So that’s been my sport. I ski, a big skier too. Downhill, backcountry, cross country skiing. Anything outside. Mountain climbing, hiking, man, I’m just all about being in the outdoors because that’s where I find peace and happiness.
Carl: There you go.
Jon: And I get in touch with who I am, and who we are, so that’s kind of where my head’s always at.
Carl: That’s awesome.
Jon: So your sporting career. Ok, we were just talking about your legs. Those are some damn big legs there my boy, holy shit. How tall are you?
Carl: I’m 6’8. 6’9.
Jon: 6’8, 6’9. You got a tall family? Where did that come from?
Carl: I actually don’t know. Well, you know, my dad is, well, my dad was 6’1. He’s a little older now with a big belly, so he’s about 5’11. (laughs)
Carl: Exactly. But my mom is tall for a woman. She’s 5’11 and a half, almost six feet, so we get our height from my, I get my height from my mom probably. My brother is 6’7. My sister is 6’2. My youngest brother’s 6’3, and the baby sister is about 6 feet, so.
Carl: We’re all pretty tall.
Jon: Five of you.
Jon: Five. What’d mom and dad do in Milwaukee to raise such fine…
Carl: My mom was pretty much a stay-at-home mom, and my dad, he owns properties, so he leases out property, and also he works for the city of Milwaukee driving Milwaukee public buses, so.
Jon: Cool, cool.
Carl: City buses.
Jon: So they raised a family of five, and I did a little bit of research. And your brother was a basketball player as well, your younger brother. Are you the oldest?
Carl: I’m the oldest, yeah. We actually we all played basketball, except my baby sister. She actually went to school last year to be a dental hygienist.
Carl: But yeah, I played basketball obviously. My brother Marcus, who is right under me, he played basketball at the University of Wisconsin.
Jon: I saw that, yeah.
Carl: Following my brother Marcus, I have a sister, Shenita. She played at Temple University in Philadelphia. And my brother after Shenita is Jason, and he played at, he could’ve eventually went Division I, but he wanted to go somewhere where he could just average thirty points, and be the man.
Jon: He’s got to have fun, huh.
Carl: Yeah, have fun. So, you know, he never really took the game serious, as far as making an income from it, like, you know, me and my brothers and my sister. But he enjoyed playing the game, and he wanted to have fun, so he went to Ashford University in Iowa, and averaged like 35 points a game. (laughs)
Jon: And so your sister played pro too?
Carl: She does. She actually just got back from Finland.
Jon: Wonderful, cool.
Carl: Yeah, my brother plays in Italy.
Jon: I saw that. Yeah, I was stuck, it was interesting, maybe just as kind of a stepping off point. You never know where these kind of things go. But just the one thing I was doing a little background, just to kind of get a sense for, I was struck by the difference in the careers between you and your brother a little bit. I don’t know if you’re cool talking about it, but it was really interesting I thought ‘cause I was watching what happened. I’d just love to hear a little about your story and basketball, right. So high school, at least according to, you know, really reliable sources on the interweb, you weren’t like a superstar on basketball, coming out of high school, right, going onto a big university versus your brother kind of had a little different track. How did you guys as a family, all basketball, how did that go, how did that feel for you?
Carl: Honestly, I almost call my life a miracle. Especially with me in high school. It started in high school. My freshman year, I begin to grow a little bit. I’m 6’2, 6’3. Tried out for the basketball team, freshman team, didn’t make it. Got cut. So as I’m walking through the hallways my freshman year, and even the following year, my sophomore year, I’m 6’4 now. Coaches and teachers are looking at me, people in school are like, you don’t play basketball? Why you don’t play basketball? You know, and making fun of me because of my height and because I’m uncoordinated, and the whole nine. So I tried out my sophomore year, made the team, barely played. Really didn’t play much my junior year, but kind of came into myself my senior year, but it was a little bit too late. It wasn’t too late. It’s never too late, but I didn’t really understand what college was my senior year. Nobody in my family had ever went to college before. I was the first one to go to college, so I didn’t understand what a ACT, SAT was, didn’t understand the importance of getting the right grades in class. All I thought was, you get a two point, that’s good enough to play basketball in high school. As time went on, I begin to understand those things towards the end of my senior year when those things approach, but it was almost too late. I had a month, a couple weeks to prepare. Decided to go to junior college, Vincennes University in southern Indiana, because I didn’t have the grades. I didn’t understand college, but at the same time I wanted to further my education, so went to junior college. Played on the team. Before the season started, I knew I wasn’t going to play a lot, but some of the guys in front of me got in trouble, got kicked off the team, homesick, transferred, and I got my opportunity. I told myself, I said, this was my way out. This was my ticket out of the way I lived, the way I was brought up in Milwaukee, so I did everything I possible could to be the best person I can be in school and also on the court, and got a scholarship to go to Purdue.
Jon: I saw that. I was really interested in that. I saw that. I was like wow, look at this kind of route this guy takes, right, and when did it click to you to be the best person, be the best version of yourself? ‘Cause that’s something I always say, like how do you work hard to be the best version of yourself. When did you realize that it’s going to be up to me to be the best version of myself.
Carl: I mean, just being honest with you, just seeing the way some of my cousins, peers, just lived their lives, how everyday they woke up and went to work, and jobs pay six, seven dollars an hour, or they didn’t go to work at all, and then living life off welfare. I didn’t want that, and also at that time my family was going through a lot. I just told myself, I’ma give it everything I got. I know school is gonna get me a good job, and I’ma give it everything I got on the basketball court. So I earned a scholarship to go to Purdue in Indiana, Purdue University. It didn’t stop there though. The last game my freshman, not my freshman year, my junior year, ‘cause I went to Vincennes University for two years, I tore my ACL in my right knee. Usually you hear stories, you have an ACL injury, basketball career’s over, especially 15, 20 years ago. When you have an ACL tear, it’s over, like you can’t recover, no more basketball. So in my head, that’s immediately what I thought, but I asked God, I said God, give me health again. I’ll do everything I can to leave it all out on the line and just help me be a successful individual. I’m a man of faith, so. Man, everything just worked perfectly the following season when I played. Got some offers to work out for some teams, some NBA teams. Actually I had 14 workouts in 16 days, so I went to 14 different cities, and worked out for 14 different teams in 16 days.
Carl: I was extremely exhausted. I didn’t know if I was going to get drafted or not, but my parents were–and I know I’m telling a lie–
Jon: It’s all good. No, no, that’s why we’re here.
Carl: My parents were really excited I had an opportunity to get drafted. I didn’t know if I was going to get drafted. They threw a draft party for me, had a workout in Philadelphia actually with the 6ers the day before the draft. Ended up getting stuck at the airport, sleeping at the airport. I didn’t make my draft party, but I got drafted that night. I was the first pick in the second round.
Carl: And that was one of the greatest days of my life, and I’m here today.
Jon: That’s fabulous. Wow. That’s amazing.
Carl: 10 years later, I’m here today.
Jon: And that is an amazing feat. And you played nine years, 10 years in the league.
Jon: Which in and of itself is an amazing feat. We were talking about that a little earlier. And your health has pulled you through. You look great, by the way.
Carl: Thank you. Thank you.
Jon: Super handsome guy.
Carl: (laughs) Thank you, thank you. To all the ladies out there listening.
Jon: All the fans. So, that’s incredible. Now your younger brother, now he’s coming up behind you, right, so what are you telling him? And he was a star in high school.
Carl: Yeah, he was.
Jon: He was a star in high school, looked like to me, right, and he goes to Madison. He’s a Badger, and he gets drafted. It’s kind of like a little different trajectory for him.
Carl: Yeah, I mean I wrote the blueprint, so you know.
Jon: Right, so that helps things right.
Carl: So he knew about the ACT, the SAT, how to get grades, how college went, and what college was all about, so I was always in his ear telling him, you should do this, you should stay away from that, this is what this is like when you get here, and this is what this is like when you get there. So it was a little easier for him. He actually did not get drafted after playing at the University of Wisconsin. He signed a rookie deal to play with the New York Knicks, so he played with the New York Knicks and also the Boston Celtics. And now he plays in Italy, and he’s had a wonderful career. He’s been playing professional ball and making a great income for eight years.
Jon: Wonderful. That’s super cool.
Carl: My sister’s the same way, so yeah.
Jon: That’s great.
Carl: It all started, I would say, you know, I played a big part in it. I don’t want to take all the credit because I know that–
Jon: Hey, listen, the oldest always gets to take all the– I’m the oldest of three, and I know. Look, we’re the ones that are plowing the ground. They get to see, oh, don’t do that. Older brother did that, and oh, that worked.
Jon: So, you know.
Carl: Yeah, I definitely think if it wasn’t for me, it would have been a little challenging for them, so I’m glad that I went through it ‘cause I feel like I’m built for it. But hey, my family’s doing well and I’m proud.
Carl: Thank you.
Jon: That’s awesome. That’s awesome. You got a baby?
Carl: Got a son, two years old.
Jon: What’s his name?
Carl: Yup. I mean just a bundle of joy.
Jon: How’s that? What’s it like to be a father? What does that feel like?
Carl: You know what, in the beginning, three months, when he was three months, six months, it was all just, mom. Nothing I can do, he just always wants mom. Until about a year and a half. Until he was about a year, year and a half. And now he’s two, man, and he just won’t leave me alone, you know, and that’s a great thing. He won’t leave my hip, on my side. I want to do everything I can to make sure I’m a great dad, and put him in a position to be successful later on in life.
Jon: Well, I mean, you radiate joy and positivity, and I’m sure that’s why he’s like, ok, ok, I want that. You know what I mean, really. We were talking about a few things, how much effort you put towards the things that you’re doing, and I’m sure setting that example, that’s amazing.
Carl: Thank you.
Jon: So you’re moving to Houston. We were just talking about you’re going to leave the Midwest. You’re going down to Houston.
Carl: Yeah, grew up right up the road in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Like I said, first team I played for, I don’t know if I mentioned it, but anyway, I got drafted 10 years ago. First team I played for was the Houston Rockets.
Carl: Met a lot of great people down there. Actually two of my really, really, really close friends live in Houston as well, and they didn’t move down there when I played. They moved before I got there, actually a year before I got there. And Houston is just like my city, it’s a home away from home. One thing that I struggled with growing up as a kid living in Milwaukee was the weather. It’s a beautiful city, has a lot to offer, but as we all know, it’s cold five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, probably twelve months out of the year. (laughs) I’m making that transition to Houston because I just think it’s accommodating to me and my family right now.
Jon: Yeah, getting outside, being in the warm weather, and enjoying that.
Jon: Yeah, we were talking about the story where his mom was texting him. I think there was a three foot snow storm. I think you had just got to Houston, and she’s texting you some pictures as to what’s going on, and you’re like, ok, I’m in my shorts, and…
Carl: I’m not going back.
Jon: Not going back.
Carl: Yeah, so she has an opportunity to travel to Houston to see me a lot.
Jon: And probably Carson at this point.
Carl: Me and my son, so it’s great for her because she doesn’t have to always remain in a colder climate, like Wisconsin, so.
Jon: So are you officially done now with NBA? Are you still active? Are you playing? What’s going on in your career at the moment?
Carl: I’m a free agent right now.
Jon: Free agent right now, ok.
Carl: I’m in the process of looking for a team, so anybody out there, if you’re listening, I’m interested and available.
Jon: Timberwolves, are you listening?
Jon: Timberwolves, are you listening? Come on, we need him.
Carl: Let me make sure the mic on. Check one. Check one, check two. (laughs)
Jon: At Timberwolves. We’ll hashtag @Timberwolves. I’m telling you. He doesn’t want to come back to the Midwest, but this guy, I would love to have in the Midwest. The energy, spirit, and talent, I mean that’s the heart. You know, bringing that heart.
Carl: That’s everything. One thing I will say, though, is I’m a little older. I’m a little bit mature, so seeing the route that my brother went in, in accepting, playing in Italy and some of these foreign countries, even if an international team gives me an opportunity to play, I’ll definitely think about considering taking an international job as well, not only because I’m grateful for that opportunity and it’s giving me a second chance, and I enjoy playing basketball, so.
Jon: It’s not work.
Carl: It’s not.
Jon: You know it’s not work.
Carl: It’s not work, yeah.
Jon: Well, I don’t mean to say that you don’t work hard, but it’s part of you. Like I say, when I’m here, I’m not working, so if you can’t tell already, this is life.
Carl: I’ve seen what my brother and his family has been through, and enjoying an experience, and the culture, international foods, and international people, and learning different languages. I’m willing to see what that’s all about.
Jon: Can he speak Italian?
Carl: He can speak a little bit of Italian.
Jon: Little bit, yeah?
Carl: He can speak French.
Carl: And also Spanish.
Jon: That’s amazing.
Carl: And so can his kids, and when I see that, that’s just a really good thing.
Jon: I just visited, my daughter was doing some studying abroad right now, and went and visited her in France. And she could speak French, and I just thought that was the most amazing thing to see her be able to get around and to be able to communicate with people in their own language, and to get immersed in their culture is really special.
Carl: Yes, special, yeah it is. It’s amazing, man, to see that. I mean my brother he has three kids. They’re eight, ten, and eleven. To see those kids, they can speak four languages. That’s incredible.
Jon: Are they living in Italy now? Is that where they’re at?
Carl: They’re actually on their way back today.
Carl: From Italy. He also has a house in the Milwaukee area, so season is over.
Jon: So they come back for the summer and enjoy some Midwest summer fun.
Carl: Oh yeah. Grandma’s cooking.
Jon: Grandma’s cooking.
Carl: My mom.
Jon: What’s the favorite meal that Grandma makes?
Carl: My mom? Oh, she doesn’t cook. Pancakes, that’s all she can cook. (laughs)
Jon: I love it.
Carl: But they love her pancakes.
Jon: I have very fond memories of my Grandma’s pancakes.
Carl: It’s all my mom cooks. She’s all about breakfast. Lunch and dinner, not so much, but she’ll cook some pancakes. (laughs)
Jon: That’s awesome. Well, that’s amazing. That’s really interesting. So international would be really, really exciting, very interesting, I hear you. A whole different way of exploring the career of basketball, the world in which we live, and kind of just immerse yourself in something different. So what after basketball? As you think about your career post basketball, what does that look like?
Carl: This is another reason why I chose Houston. I had an opportunity to meet some really good people in Houston, and while in Houston I’ve had a chance to establish my own real estate company. So I actually own properties in the downtown area of Houston and also the medical center, and I lease them out. I make a little money off that right now, and after my basketball career’s over, I look forward to being more hands on with that, so.
Carl: It’s going great right now, but I want to take it to another level when I’m done.
Jon: Cool. That’s amazing. Well, that was a great little visit. We’ll wrap it up. Thank you for sharing. Your spirit is indomitable. I mean, that heart, I can tell. We already connected. It’s like, he’s looking, we’re in my little studio here. I got my sleeping loft.
Carl: Look, I’m all about hard work. I feel like that’s what got me to where I am today. So when I’m in the presence of you and see what you do, and see how you move on an everyday basis, I appreciate it, because I feel like you got to where you got because of hard work. So I feel like that’s one of the reasons why we connect so well. Hard work, man. It definitely pays off.
Jon: There’s no substitute, right. Make your own luck, your own opportunities. Persistence. Persistence has been my latest word. Have you seen The Founder?
Jon: That’s the story about Ray Kroc. He was the founder of McDonald’s.
Carl: Oh, I want to see that.
Jon: You got to see that.
Carl: I want to see that.
Jon: It’s amazing. That’s crazy that you say persistence because that’s a word that I always tell the younger generation, and I also have a camp that I have every year in Milwaukee. But I always tell people, I always tell the kids to apply themselves and always be persistent. If you dream, apply yourself, and be persistent, with hard work, man, the sky’s the limit.
Carl: You can do anything you want to do.
Jon: I like to say, I’d like to see the man who can stop me.
Carl: There you go.
Jon: Just show me, you know. Just let him show up. I’d like to see him right now, who’s going to keep me away from getting my goals and achieving what I’m going to achieve through hard work, effort, and persistence, right.
Carl: ‘Cause I always speak to the kids every summer with a message that’s five, ten minutes long. The message that I gave to them last summer was just to dream, and I told them, dream big, and just dream big. You know what I did? And they was like, what? I was like, I didn’t dream big enough.
Jon: Oh, right.
Carl: I didn’t dream big enough.
Carl: You know. I wanted a nice house. I wanted a nice car. I said, I got all of that. You know what I’m saying? So what do I do, do I stop now? You gotta dream bigger than your mind could ever imagine.
Jon: Don’t be too modest with that dream.
Jon: Don’t be too modest with it.
Carl: You can get it. You can accomplish it if you persistent, hard work, dedication.
Jon: Get a plan. Take some action towards it. But I think what you said right there, especially for kids, get a dream.
Carl: Get a dream.
Jon: Especially if kids don’t see it. If they don’t have a peer, if they don’t see it, then how are you supposed to know what to dream? Just like you were saying in college, you don’t know. You don’t know what you don’t know. You don’t know, so something’s got to tell you and show you what that dream might look like. And then tell you that you can have it. You are not excluded from the party.
Carl: I said when kids, when you grow up, if somebody tells you to do something, you don’t understand it. But if you see them do it… It’s almost like this. If I tell you don’t touch that stove, you gonna touch that stove anyway as a kid. But when you touch the stove and you see the results of touching that hot stove, you see the results of touching that hot stove, you’re not going to do it anymore. Kids grow up and they become a product of their environment because they see the drug dealers, they see all of these things, cars with the rim, and they want that.
Carl: But you can’t think how you see. You gotta think differently, and just dream big, man. You know what I’m saying? And eventually if you dream, and you stimulate your mind on other things, the sky’s the limit. I’m telling you. It’s crazy. I know this sounds cheesy, but you really can be anything you want, really can if you put your mind to it.
Jon: That’s not cheesy at all. That’s absolutely true.
Carl: For real, for real. I’m a living witness.
Jon: Well, that’s it, but it’s like we were saying. Amen. Then that’s your point, which is I’m living proof that it works.
Jon: I’m living here proof that this works. And just like you said, you can touch the hot stove and feel like, yeah, it’s hot –oh yeah, it is hot–
Jon: But I tell you as well if you can dream that picture and you can touch that picture, you will then know too that that’s real too.
Jon: Now that might sound cheesy, and you might not believe me, and if you don’t take my word for it and apply it, you’ll never know if it works or it isn’t. You’ll never know if that stove is hot or not.
Carl: Yup, exactly.
Jon: So just like you touched that hot stove, you can touch that hot dream, and you can definitely go out and get it.
Carl: That’s right.
Jon: We preach that here. That’s our psychology of achievement. We preach that all day long, and that what we’re trying to do here is set conditions that people can meet and exceed their own expectations. They can have dreams, and they can achieve those dreams, and help people along the way, so that’s a big thing of what we’ve got going on here.
Carl: I also told the kids, this was the following year, and I don’t remember everything that I said, but I read a quote by Jermaine O’Neal. Y’all might not know him. Anyway, he’s a basketball player. He said, he always wanted to stand out. And I’m like, what does he mean, stand out? That fitting in was easy. He said fitting in was easy. Doing everything that everybody do everyday was easy, but he said if I stood out in some type of way, he said I’ma have different results. I’ma have standout results.
Jon: You know what that’s called?
Carl: What’s it called?
Jon: It’s called the law of contrast. Law of contrast. If there’s a lot of contrast, I stand out– what’s going on over there? Law of contrast. Everyone’s doing mediocre.
Carl: Yeah, everybody doing the same thing.
Jon: Oh, what’s that going on.
Carl: They might make fun of you, laugh at you, talk about you ‘cause you different, but you’re gonna have different results in the end. (laughs)
Jon: First of all, I love talking to people understand the psychology. I also like to know if they’ve ever studied it, you know, or did you learn it. You know what I mean?
Jon: So it’s always kind of interesting too. It’s like, I think we learn these things, and then we kind of study it too, and you can tweak it. And I love how guys when they are learning it, and then they want to teach it to others.
Jon: And share it.
Carl: Yeah, I never learned it.
Jon: Well you did learn it. You never studied it.
Carl: I mean I never studied it, but I learned it, yeah.
Jon: And how long have you been running your school then, you camp?
Carl: My camp? Since my rookie year.
Jon: Since your rookie year.
Carl: This will be the eleventh year I think.
Carl: This summer. Tenth or eleventh year.
Jon: And how many years do you bring through the school?
Carl: It varies. It’s usually like around 100 kids.
Jon: Milwaukee area or from national?
Carl: Milwaukee area, and I also have one in Indiana. I stopped doing it last summer, but usually around 100 kids every year.
Jon: When does that run?
Carl: It runs, this summer is July 26th through the 28th at my high school. I know we’re in Minnesota now, but we get the Milwaukee Bucks’ mascot Bango to come out, free food, and we just have, like, a good time. You know, and not only teach them basketball skills, but we teach them life skills, and that’s what kids need, man. It’s awesome.
Jon: That would be one of my goals, is to develop life skill training to teach this stuff to younger kids.
Carl: This generation needs it bad. That’s it. Anyway, thank you guys for listening. (laughs)
Jon: Sign him up, baby. If you get him, you’ll be lucky, trust me on that one. Cheers. (Music) Ok, thank you. That was another installation of the Innovating Life podcast. That was Carl Landry, who is obviously an amazing individual, and if any of you are lucky enough to be with Carl, you’ll feel his shining light, positivity, hard work ethic, and true genius of spirit. It’s been a real pleasure to get to know him, and I imagine we’ll stay in touch for years to come. I want to follow Carl, and continue to be a part of his life, and watch all the great things that he’ll continue to do. Thanks for tuning in, and we’ll look to catch you on the flipside.